Via ' Alouette' Extra Saturday October 18 2014

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Get ready fellow VIAPhiles. Was forwarded this information by someone who's working it this Saturday.


Tickets can still be purchased here : http://en.montrealalouettes.com/page/2014-fan-train http://en.montrealalouettes.com/page/2014-fan-train


As for Via's x-BCR / FEC obs. Does anyone know if it's the first time it's ever been operated ?



_________________________________________________________________________________


'extra' 665-666 October 18 2units + 9 cars ( includes x-BCR/ FEC Pavilion 1751 on rear )


665 666


lv 08:00 Central Station ar 01:00

lv 08:25 ( n. track ) Dorval lv 00:41 (s. track )


ar 12:41 Union -Toronto lv 20:30
______________________________________________________________________________________


This' ll be interesting to see. Get your scanners out !


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc

[tim_hayman-FFYn/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Now this is exciting! Thanks for he heads-up Ken. So I assume for ode times that it would have to be a run through Cornwall. Conveniently, I will. Be within walking distance of the Kingston sub east of Brockville on Saturday morning.

Would be great if someone around Montreal could confirm if they leave on time Saturday.


I believe this would be the first VIA use of Pavillion, so I would love to catch it.


Tim
Halifax, NS

[torbeaches-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

For those of us who cannot make it trackside - I'll be out of town unfortunately - any pictures posted here of the train, in general, and Pavilion specifically, would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.




Derek Thompson
Toronto, Ontario

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

ATTENTION : Derek as well as anyone who may have read my post about this Via extra.


Take note : the tail end car will be Glen Fraser #1750 NOT Pavilion i.e. # 1741





It surprised me to see this car I.e. Pavilion on the road with it being in storage ever since it's initial purchase.


This correction was just confirmed to me moments ago. My apologies everyone.


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc.

['I.W.P.' iftntnfs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Note; Pavillion is #1751, not 1741.



Ian

Dorval, QC



_____

From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: October 16, 2014 18:45
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday
October 18 2014








ATTENTION : Derek as well as anyone who may have read my post about this Via
extra.



Take note : the tail end car will be Glen Fraser #1750 NOT Pavilion i.e.
# 1741



Lounge car - VIA Rail Canada
<http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/images/aboutViaRail/our-fleet/V
oiture%201750_glen_fraser.jpg>



It surprised me to see this car I.e. Pavilion on the road with it being in
storage ever since it's initial purchase.



This correction was just confirmed to me moments ago. My apologies
everyone.



K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc.










---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Gosh Darn Dag Nab Gee Whiz........well thanks to Via it was the right caption.


As a final note that lounge car mis-information was not a trial balloon ? !


If anyone's willing to take part I am prepared to petition Mr.Siciliano into seducing every Alouette fan as a convert to VIA-Phile-ism..........forever. Let's Roll Pavilion !


An all volunteer 'Beau Pelouse' cutting crew at Via's MMC hopefully will be digging out the Pavilion ( yes car # 1751 ). Our efforts will be reflective of the new president' s efforts to create more taxpayer value. By maximizing dormant assets without an environmental footprint. A non profit proposal for a nominal fee to recertify this car for 100 mph service will be made. Perhaps with FEC lettering. All the while insuring no costs whatsoever for Via. Or us taxpayers.


Anyone want to join the demonstration on the plaza of Place Ville Marie next to Via headquarters ? With all the other municipal and provincial employees in this province ?


We may get lost in a sea of placards ( ! ) with everyone else. But heck. Maybe we' ll make that Railfan Five Challenge ? !


Have A Terrific Friday ! ................. Toute Monde


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc.




...........come on gang..........wouldn't ya wanna be sittin' here ?


Loading Image...
interior of an x-FEC observation identical to Pavilion in 2007 :


http://trainweb.org/vrt/SAMShortLine/ http://trainweb.org/vrt/SAMShortLine/

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

hello Group

I can attest to you Ken that Yes Desjardins-Siciliano does not know that VIA has Pavilion, where Pavilion is and what car is Pavilion. I can attest to to first hand knowledge as I was on the 110th anniversary Ocean trip out of Montreal and may have been the only passenger who took him up on his offer to sit down and chat. I had to wait a while but I got my shot from just before Truro to just shot of Springhill Junction.

One of the last things I asked was if he would please start using Pavilion. He stared at me in disbelief as to what Pavilion was. I actually had to give him a brief rundown of what Pavilion was and where it possibly could be. He seemed truely puzzled that I brought up Pavilion. I wonder if the MMC staff don't use the car for after hours poker games.....would seem perfectly understandable as to why the car has never left the MMC.

The real reason is probably HEP or electrical incompatibility with VIA's fleet.

Mark Charlebois
Montreal, QC

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Awww Shucks Mark. I didn't know.


But do you think we can still convince him to convert it's HEP capabilities? And squeeze more out of our weed infested, taxpayer assets with a non profit, cost free initiative ? In turn having every Al fan baptized to ..........


..............VIA-Phile-ism ?


I say > > Let's Roll Pavilion ! > Let's Roll <


( seriously though Mark............... thanks for that information )


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc.

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Lucky You Mark. Being aboard for that 110th anniversary run. Haven't been down east on that train in some time. How was service overall for your trip ?


Not having followed anything Via or the media may have posted about Mr.Siciliano's trip does he always repeat the same line ?


During your conversation was any mention made of returning the train to it's former 6 day a week schedule ? Saw something to the effect that he wants to foster attempts in building up ridership. His predecessor as we know felt that there was no hope for the train in that regard.


Two service managers during my corridor trips this summer told me a PA announcement is made whenever he's aboard. To the effect that he's willing to talk with customers in car so and so.


Imagine the earful he'd get if he was aboard # 1 or # 2 hours off schedule like it is so often. Enough to make you........resign ? !


K. Wadden

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Post by xcnken-/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
During your conversation was any mention made of returning the
train to it's former 6 day a week schedule? Saw something to the
effect that he wants to foster attempts in building up ridership.

That came up at VIA's annual public meeting last May. The answer
was "For the time being, VIA Rail's service between Montréal and
Halifax will remain at three departures a week in both directions.
We base the frequencies on customer demand. If demand increases,
we will increase the frequencies to accommodate more passengers."

This sets up a vicious circle: the low frequency makes the train
inconvenient or impossible to use for many people, driving down
ridership and giving management a justification for the low
frequency of service.

Post by xcnken-/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
Two service managers during my corridor trips this summer told
me a PA announcement is made whenever he's aboard. To the effect
that he's willing to talk with customers in car so and so.

So I've heard. I haven't been on a train with him, so I haven't
heard that announcement firsthand. Congratulations to Mark for
taking him up on his offer. A question for all of the group
members: if you had a chance to talk with Mr. D-S on board a
train, what would you say?

Tom Box
tbox at ncf dot ca
Port Hope, ON, Canada

['Don Thomas' [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Why stop at six days? Why not just operate seven days like everything else?



From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: October-17-14 11:55 AM
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: Pavilion and Mr.Siciliano

Post by xcnken-/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
During your conversation was any mention made of returning the
train to it's former 6 day a week schedule? Saw something to the
effect that he wants to foster attempts in building up ridership.

That came up at VIA's annual public meeting last May. The answer
was "For the time being, VIA Rail's service between Montréal and
Halifax will remain at three departures a week in both directions.
We base the frequencies on customer demand. If demand increases,
we will increase the frequencies to accommodate more passengers."

This sets up a vicious circle: the low frequency makes the train
inconvenient or impossible to use for many people, driving down
ridership and giving management a justification for the low
frequency of service.

Post by xcnken-/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
Two service managers during my corridor trips this summer told
me a PA announcement is made whenever he's aboard. To the effect
that he's willing to talk with customers in car so and so.

So I've heard. I haven't been on a train with him, so I haven't
heard that announcement firsthand. Congratulations to Mark for
taking him up on his offer. A question for all of the group
members: if you had a chance to talk with Mr. D-S on board a
train, what would you say?

Tom Box
tbox at ncf dot ca
Port Hope, ON, Canada

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Hey you'll get no argument with me on this whatsoever Tom or Don. Or anybody else.


I just hope I haven't bored anybody to death with a line of questions I've repeated at this forum previously.


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Ok yes Don. That would be even better. If they'll acquiesce to it.


While I'm at it here's my questions for Mr. Siciliano Tom :


1 - Well Mr.Siciliano I'd like to know when daily service will be restored on the Ocean. And to the Gaspe where I've travelled many times on vacation. Geez how come your company claims it's a temporary shutdown ? Why can't your train run when they're operating a type of cruise train up there as we speak ? Called L'Amiral ?


2 - Ok Mr. Siciliano. If you can't restore full service to Halifax how about adjusting the schedule ? Your train misses the Maritime Bus connections by just ten minutes. Everywhere in all the major cities. Can't you immediately change it.....like now ? What bird brain dreamed up this ? Hell I hate driving.


And listen. Via use to offer a connecting bus on portions of the route to Gaspe. My understanding is that the remaining bus service in the area is gonna be cut in half soon. How about it ? Do you really want us back ? Well do something.


3 - Can't the fares on these trains be adjusted somehow ? They are so expensive at times and unaffordable. Especially if you do so at the last minute. Can't your marketing people do better ? I don't want to own the dam thing.


4 - On occasion Mr.Siciliano I use your Toronto service. Not that long ago I remember how your company proudly announced 3' and 59" schedules on some trains. Didn't you guys and the feds announce a big infrastructure project what 3 years ago ? How come they now take longer than ever ? I don't get it. Ya know Porter can get me right to downtown Toronto in 1' and 20 ". Every hour almost.


So like Dusty Springfield who belted out her vocal cords in the 60's I'm just..........Wishin' And Hopin' And Singin' etc etc......


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Ken,

The trip was awesome but a P.R. nightmare for VIA. The consist was late arriving at central due to issues with one of the F40s. At 7pm the locos were STILL only at the fueling station.Also the addition of a Skyline, 2 Châteaux, Glen Fraser and either Assiniboine or Strathcona (can't remember off hand) musn't have been entirely fast as well. We finally left around 8:20 pm. Got into Quebec 2h and spare change late.....woke up 4hs behind schedule to realise that the scenery I was seeing at 7 am was unfamiliar because it was Amqui.

The train had an awesome menu. Food was great, better then normal and every meal was awesome. Breakfast remained special because I feel is it hands down the best meal of the whole trip but this time everything was great. There was even a mousse cake with 110th styled on it.....it was in a class of it's own compared to the mundane cheesecake regularly served. The last 4 cars behind the Skyline were shut off to the public.They were reserved for the mayors, elected officials and VIA brass taking part in the trip.

Upside was seeing the coast, the Matapédia valley and parts of eastern Quebec in broad daylight which was a treat. We never made up time. Arrived in Htown at 10 pm, was fed free St-Hubert that was shipped en masse to Moncton station. There was soo much bird, you could take a second or third box after the car attendants did their initial rounds. Despite it being free, I hate St-Hubert.....Tim Hayman can personnaly vouch for that!

DISCLAIMER: the following may be hogwash, reader's descretion is advised

Mr Desjardins-Siciliano mentioned how he wants to make things into a corridor, i.e. make VIA's network a series of corridors that has 1 or 2 trains connecting the corridors. He believes the Ocean doesn't have a proper identity being a tourist train and means of transportation and not excelling in either. The Canadian would also be a such target. There was also mention of doing the Ocean in seats rather then sleepers.

I had the chance while returning the next dayand getting to not only sleeper in a Château instead of a Ren but also ride Glen Fraser and the one way blocked off Park. On the return someone whom may or may not work for VIA in either of VIA's 2 big offices told me that there are apparently plans regarding both the Ocean and Canadian. To me it sounded too good to be true which is why I shall repeat the above sentence: this could all be bullshit.

I elected not to mention the source of the hearsay simply because I do not believe in revealing a source. I cannot verify the truth of what that person told me therefore what was said to me could be all lies or could be true and never pan out. One thing's for sure, I do not want to contribute to that person getting into trouble because I was privied to information. I was simply told to keep it under wraps. There was alot more said regarding corridors and long hauls but to protect the source I will only divulge info at a later date. A friend of mine has said in talking to VIA staff that Mr Desjardins-Siciliano will unveil shortly his 5 year plan for VIA. I will clarify this message after that said plan has been revealed.

Now about the P.R. disaster, the special event was VIA whining and dinning mayors and elected officials along the route for a crucial meeting the next morning at the Nova Scotian. VIA apparently asked the cities/villages along the route to not only pick up advertising but also staff stations thus reducing VIA's red ink. The meeting did not go over too well and by boarding time at 11 am, there were alot of pissed off mayors. Suffice to say, most of VIA's brass flew home. How do I know all of this? I spent the better part of the return trip talking to a representative from the Moncton delegation whom was traveling to Montreal. I also booked a room in Château and both Châteaux were used mainly to drop the mayors off along the line. I had a chance to overhear a pissed off mayor from either Northern New-Brunswick or Quebec talk to another mayor in the center room while I was trying to get to the Park.


Mark Charlebois
Montreal,QC

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Merci beaucoup Mark. For describing not only your personal observations to and from Hogtown. But also Mr.Siciliano's non-efforts to win public support.


You also got two bonuses. A daylight schedule when you least expect it plus conventional equipment. On the latter is Via admitting something we already know ?


When things don't go according to plan it's makes it all the more interesting. A well as revealing. If Via corporate executives flew back after the trip they've discredited themselves completely. No surprise there.


After a recent round of media scrums here in Montreal I've found that he repeats the same message. Which in effect amounts to nothing really.


If they have any kind of a five year plan to announce tient votre nez for some more bs.


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc .


........avez-vous pas de voitures Renaissance du tout ce voyage Mark ?

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Ken

the Ocean is 99% Ren. The 110th was no exception. The only difference the 110th had with other summer consists was a Skyline and Glen Fraser and the double Châteaux. As stated previously, the 4 last cars were VIP cars, only the Skyline was open to the public on the eastbound trip. In past years, Châteaux have made cameos and 2 years ago a pair of Manors(one on each set) also enjoyed a brief tour of duty down east.Even 1 or 2 HEP coaches made a cameo around christmas time last year.

Normally the only car on the Ocean that isn't a Ren is a Park.

The Parks are also on the tail end unless there's an issue and in that case they are replaced with a Skyline. As stated with the 110th consist, Glen Fraser , Château Bienville, Château Brûlé and the Park were blocked off until the return the next day when everyone could ride it. This summer I've had the chance to ride the Ocean for 3 two-way trips and thankfully there's been a Château on 2 of those 3 trips. Even a section is hands down better then a Ren.

When you have only a piece of plywood the thickness of prosciuto and sometime that said plywood is cracked, you're never in for a good night. Last time I used my duvet under the mattress to enable me to sleep. Also had to bring black electrical tape and practically tape the room shut to prevent the lights from screwing with my sleep.


Mark Charlebois
Montreal,QC

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Merci Mark. La je comprend l'affaire.


When they substitute stainless sleepers can you book it ahead through their web site ? With corresponding lower prices ? Or were you just lucky that trip ?


Next spring I'm planning possibly a Maritime round trip. With ma belle femme sampling those Ren sleepers for the first time.


But if I had it my way I'd ride a Chateau......anytime !


K. Wadden Pointe Claire qc

[G Burridge gburridge-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Post by xcnken-/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
...
Next spring I'm planning possibly a Maritime round trip. With ma
belle femme sampling those Ren sleepers for the first time.

Make a sleeping bag part of your carry-on allotment ...

Post by xcnken-/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
But if I had it my way I'd ride a Chateau......anytime !
K. Wadden Pointe Claire qc
----------
----------

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trace history of Canadian Pacific Sleeping Dining & Parlor Cars:
<http://pages.globetrotter.net/burridge/CPR_SDP_HistTrace.ods>
Railways of Quebec City and South-Eastern Quebec:
<http://pages.globetrotter.net/burridge/index.htm>
Gerry Burridge - P.O. Box 152 - Pte.Claire, Que. - H9R 4N9 - CANADA
=====================================================================



------------------------------------
Posted by: G Burridge <gburridge-/***@public.gmane.org>
------------------------------------

For help, send an email to Canadian-Passenger-Rail-help-***@public.gmane.org

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Ha ! Ok Gerry. Some very sound advice from what I'm reading.


While I'm at it should I also bring black tape to seal out all that florescent corridor lighting ? ?


Ren ' junk ' here we come ! Thanks guys. K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc


.........I rode The Enterprise ( remember that ? ) about ten years ago from Toronto in a non shower equipped room for my first time......lots of light coming in around the door seals.....

..........noted the quiet ride apart from rather cramped berths / beds.......

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Ken,

the Châteaux( and conversely Manors) have been hard to track ahead of time. Tom Box keeps very close tabs on consist modification, I do not recall if he had given us advance warning of their use. I was fortunate as all my tickets (except the 110th which was a spur of the moment thing) were purchased ahead of time. I got lucky a few times and it was only a short period of time before departure on two of three occasions that I found out that Châteaux were in the consist.

Having only slept in rooms these past 2 times, I didn't save money. The last time (early august) it was a trade off and the first time it actually cost me 72 or 100 additional to get roomette 1.

Gerry's advice is pretty good. Otherwise, if you're not in the mood to bring extra luggage, you can always just open the upper bunk take the duvet from that bed and slip it under your <<mattress>>. The beds are easily operable and it takes only a few tries to get it right. I've often done my own bunk and have assisted nearby passengers with theirs. I didn't need my duvet in summer because I'm a fairly large guy and I always have the AC on. I've never ridden the Ocean past late September but a fellow list member can attest to you that the Rens don't hold heat all that well compared to Budds. That's not to say it's always cold in the cars, but you might need that duvet come late autumn/ beginning winter on top of the heating. That is of course if you're traveling solo......if not well...you could always ask the car attendant for sheets, I'm pretty sure they sympathise real easy given the condition of the cars.


Mark Charlebois
Montreal,QC

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Merci Beaucoup Mark.


Almost sounds as if those Ren bedrooms are.......refrigerators ! I just might have a hard time convincing my wife to go. Unless I supply her with.....steam ? heat. HA !


Tim just listed a series of tentative dates during the Xmas season for Budd consists.


I'll certainly keep your evaluation in mind. K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc

[Dan Garcia smallspy_g-FFYn/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

I have been told that it's not just the higher-ups at VIA, but even the staff at MMC isn't aware of the existence of the car. An acquaintance was at MMC for business a number of years ago, and asked about the car. The staffer he was dealing with swore that it had been scrapped years earlier, and it wasn't until my acquaintance pointed at the car and showed him that it was still on the property that he maintained otherwise.


As for its not being used, there are a number of reasons, not the least of which is the friction bearing 41-E trucks underneath the car.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.



________________________________
From: "edmontonoiler24-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]" <Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday October 18 2014





hello Group

I can attest to you Ken that Yes Desjardins-Siciliano does not know that VIA has Pavilion, where Pavilion is and what car is Pavilion. I can attest to to first hand knowledge as I was on the 110th anniversary Ocean trip out of Montreal and may have been the only passenger who took him up on his offer to sit down and chat. I had to wait a while but I got my shot from just before Truro to just shot of Springhill Junction.

One of the last things I asked was if he would please start using Pavilion. He stared at me in disbelief as to what Pavilion was. I actually had to give him a brief rundown of what Pavilion was and where it possibly could be. He seemed truely puzzled that I brought up Pavilion. I wonder if the MMC staff don't use the car for after hours poker games.....would seem perfectly understandable as to why the car has never left the MMC.

The real reason is probably HEP or electrical incompatibility with VIA's fleet.

Mark Charlebois
Montreal, QC

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

I' m rather astounded to know that Dan.


You'd think that after the multitude of owners and operators this car has gone through over the years.
Including it's last stint on the Whistler Northwind that BCR would have put Amtrak / Via compatible roller bearings on it.


It seems like a big waste to have that car just sitting there. It looks one hell of a lot better without that diaphragm since its last remake.


If Via's not interested they should auction it off. Like they' ve done with other stored equipment.


I still say>>>>> " > Let's Roll Pavilion < " !


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc

['Don Thomas' [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

I’m not surprised there are people at VIA who aren’t aware of this car. There must be others on this list beside myself who are unfamiliar with it too, and a little startled by the sudden discussion of a mystery topic.



Since there hasn’t been any explanation or description (that I’m aware of) of this car since the thread began, could somebody enlighten us; i.e. what kind of car is it, who built it for whom, how did it get to VIA, why hasn’t it been used and so forth.



All contributions gratefully received.



Don Thomas



From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: October-17-14 12:01 PM
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday October 18 2014





I have been told that it's not just the higher-ups at VIA, but even the staff at MMC isn't aware of the existence of the car. An acquaintance was at MMC for business a number of years ago, and asked about the car. The staffer he was dealing with swore that it had been scrapped years earlier, and it wasn't until my acquaintance pointed at the car and showed him that it was still on the property that he maintained otherwise.



As for its not being used, there are a number of reasons, not the least of which is the friction bearing 41-E trucks underneath the car.



Dan

Toronto, Ont.



_____

From: "edmontonoiler24-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail] <mailto:edmontonoiler24-***@public.gmane.org%20[Canadian-Passenger-Rail]> " <Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday October 18 2014





hello Group

I can attest to you Ken that Yes Desjardins-Siciliano does not know that VIA has Pavilion, where Pavilion is and what car is Pavilion. I can attest to to first hand knowledge as I was on the 110th anniversary Ocean trip out of Montreal and may have been the only passenger who took him up on his offer to sit down and chat. I had to wait a while but I got my shot from just before Truro to just shot of Springhill Junction.

One of the last things I asked was if he would please start using Pavilion. He stared at me in disbelief as to what Pavilion was. I actually had to give him a brief rundown of what Pavilion was and where it possibly could be. He seemed truely puzzled that I brought up Pavilion. I wonder if the MMC staff don't use the car for after hours poker games.....would seem perfectly understandable as to why the car has never left the MMC.

The real reason is pr obably HEP or electrical incompatibility with VIA's fleet.

Mark Charlebois
Montreal, QC

[G Burridge gburridge-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

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At 18/10/2014 12:24 AM (), you wrote:<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I’m not surprised there are
people at VIA who aren’t aware of this car. There must be others on
this list beside myself who are unfamiliar with it too, and a little
startled by the sudden discussion of a mystery topic.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Since there hasn’t been any explanation or description (that I’m
aware of) of this car since the thread began, could somebody enlighten
us; i.e. what kind of car is it, who built it for whom, how did it get to
VIA, why hasn’t it been used and so forth.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
All contributions gratefully received.</blockquote><br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>From what
I can determine, the car information for&nbsp; VIA Rail 1751-PAVILION in
the CTG guide may confound the history of the two similar cars originally
supplied by Budd in 1939 to the FEC: BAY BISCAYNE and LAKE
WORTH:<br><br>
(From
&lt;<a href="http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=36247" eudora="autourl">
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=36247</a>&gt;*, with
CTG info underlined)<br>
<i>Two Cars</i>[Budd]<i>, 1939, Lot #96705, 57 seat bar lounge
observation:<br><br>
<u>FEC Bay Biscayne sold 1965 to SAL #6607 to SCL #5851 to Amtrak #3339
sold 1981</u> to Standard Industries to Jim Stephenson to private owner
to<u> Broadway Dinner Train (BWDX) #6607 City of Memphis</u> to New
Georgia Railroad (NGRX) #1508 Steve Polk to Stone Mountain (ASML) #1508
Samuel Hawkins*<br><br>
FEC Lake Worth sold 1965 to SAL #6606 to SCL #5850 to Amtrak #3338 sold
1981 to unknown party <u>to BC Rail (BCOL) #1751 Pavilion for Pacific
Starlight Dinner Train to VIA Rail #1751*<br><br>
</u>*SAL added rear-end diaphrams to #6606 and #6607 for mid-train
service.</i> <br>
(* Railway Preservation News site)<br><br>
This isn't the only source that seems to indicate that the car owned by
VIA may actually be the LAKE WORTH, another:<br>
&lt;<a href="http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=566766" eudora="autourl">
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=566766</a>&gt;&nbsp;
of&nbsp; former(described as) BAY BISCAYNE in 2002.<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">&nbsp;<br>
Don Thomas </blockquote></body>
<br>

<body>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
&nbsp;<font face="Courier New, Courier">&nbsp; Trace history of Canadian
Pacific Sleeping Dining &amp; Parlor Cars:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;<a href="http://pages.globetrotter.net/burridge/CPR_SDP_HistTrace.ods" eudora="autourl">
http://pages.globetrotter.net/burridge/CPR_SDP_HistTrace.ods</a>&gt;<br>
</font>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<font face="Courier, Courier">Railways of Quebec City and South-Eastern
Quebec:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;<a href="http://pages.globetrotter.net/burridge/index.htm" eudora="autourl">
http://pages.globetrotter.net/burridge/index.htm</a>&gt;<br>
</font>&nbsp;<font face="Courier New, Courier">Gerry Burridge - P.O. Box
152 - Pte.Claire, Que. - H9R 4N9 - CANADA<br>
</font>
=====================================================================




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[David Jeanes [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

(From < http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36247>*, with CTG info underlined)
< http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=566766> of former(described as) BAY BISCAYNE in 2002.

And another post about Bay Biscayne on this same site. This is the SAM Shortline car in the picture.

This reinforces that VIA's car must be Lake Worth.

David Jeanes

Stephen S. Syfrett
Post subject: Re: Budd Observation Cars Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:47 am


This car went to Stone Mountain as 1508 Steve Polk and remained there until being acquired by the Southwest Georgia Railroad Excursion Authority in 2002. It was not until then, when it became part of the S.A.M. Shortline operation, that it was given the name "SAMUEL H. HAWKINS" in honor of the founder of the Savannah, Americus & Montgomery Railway (SAM Ry.). The car retains #1508.

This car was built as part of FEC's consist contribution to the ACL's "Champion" service and was on the end of the first southbound Champion leaving Pennsylvania Station on December 1, 1939. Sister car Lake Worth was built for FEC's "Henry M. Flagler" but was assigned to the "Dixie Flagler" on December 17, 1940.

I've not been able to come up with a date for when Bay Biscayne was acquired by the New Georgia, but it had to be after 1988, since a roster published in the Feb. 1989 issue of Trains does not include it. Mr. Steve Polk was the Director of the Georgia Building Authority and the car was named in his honor. Mr. Polk died in March, 1990, so my guess is the car was new to the roster when he died. The other cars already had corporate sponsors and names so it would probably be safe to say the 1508 came to New Georgia in late 1989 or early 1990. Another car, reportedly former ACL Pullman-Standard coach #237 had been acquired in 1987 and assigned #1508, but by 1988 the car had been converted to lounge #100 "Coca Cola".

The "Steve Polk" was not included in the New Georgia Railroad equipment auction on August 24, 1995 since it and another car were already obligated to the Stone Mountain Park Authority (a transfer of state property from one state authority to another.)

When it came to the SAM Shortline the "Steve Polk" was an open car. Who was responsible for removal of the interior and the other interior changes is another question I have, but fortunately, the bar had been retained when the lounge area seating had been removed. Between 2005 and 2007 the SAM Shortline worked to do a restoration of the lounge seating based on original layout of the lounge section. We wanted to put reproduction seating in the obs lounge but money ran out, so tables & chairs are used in the obs section.
_________________
Stephen S. Syfrett
Albany, GA

[David Jeanes [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

I’m not surprised there are people at VIA who aren’t aware of this car. There must be others on this list beside myself who are unfamiliar with it too, and a little startled by the sudden discussion of a mystery topic.
Since there hasn’t been any explanation or description (that I’m aware of) of this car since the thread began, could somebody enlighten us; i.e. what kind of car is it, who built it for whom, how did it get to VIA, why hasn’t it been used and so forth.
All contributions gratefully received.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/observation-club-car

David Jeanes

['I.W.P.' iftntnfs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

If this car is now on friction bearing trucks I am pretty much convinced
that these were swapped out at some time in its career. Photographic
evidence shows roller bearings at some point prior to VIA acquiring it.



Perhaps VIA or some other previous owner needed a set of roller bearing
trucks?



Ian

Dorval,QC



_____

From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: October 17, 2014 14:01
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday
October 18 2014








I have been told that it's not just the higher-ups at VIA, but even the
staff at MMC isn't aware of the existence of the car. An acquaintance was at
MMC for business a number of years ago, and asked about the car. The staffer
he was dealing with swore that it had been scrapped years earlier, and it
wasn't until my acquaintance pointed at the car and showed him that it was
still on the property that he maintained otherwise.



As for its not being used, there are a number of reasons, not the least of
which is the friction bearing 41-E trucks underneath the car.



Dan

Toronto, Ont.



_____

From: "edmontonoiler24-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]"
<Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday
October 18 2014





hello Group

I can attest to you Ken that Yes Desjardins-Siciliano does not know that VIA
has Pavilion, where Pavilion is and what car is Pavilion. I can attest to to
first hand knowledge as I was on the 110th anniversary Ocean trip out of
Montreal and may have been the only passenger who took him up on his offer
to sit down and chat. I had to wait a while but I got my shot from just
before Truro to just shot of Springhill Junction.

One of the last things I asked was if he would please start using Pavilion.
He stared at me in disbelief as to what Pavilion was. I actually had to give
him a brief rundown of what Pavilion was and where it possibly could be. He
seemed truely puzzled that I brought up Pavilion. I wonder if the MMC staff
don't use the car for after hours poker games.....would seem perfectly
understandable as to why the car has never left the MMC.

The real reason is probably HEP or electrical incompatibility with VIA's
fleet.

Mark Charlebois
Montreal, QC












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[Dan Garcia smallspy_g-FFYn/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Not one of the photos that I've seen of it in service on the Broadway Dinner Train, nor on BCR shows the car riding on roller bearing trucks. I haven't been able to see any
photos of it prior to being sold by Amtrak, but I can't see Amtrak
taking the trucks out from under the car and replacing them with
non-roller-bearing trucks either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.



________________________________
From: "'I.W.P.' iftntnfs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]" <Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: [CanPassRail] Re: CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday October 18 2014






If this car is now on friction bearing
trucks I am pretty much convinced that these were swapped out at some time in
its career. Photographic evidence shows roller bearings at some point prior to
VIA acquiring it.

Perhaps VIA or some other previous owner
needed a set of roller bearing trucks?

Ian
Dorval, QC


________________________________

From:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: October 17, 2014 14:01
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [CanPassRail] Re:
CORRECTION TO CONSIST - Via Extra Saturday October 18 2014




I
have been told that it's not just the higher-ups at VIA, but even the staff at
MMC isn't aware of the existence of the car. An acquaintance was at MMC for
business a number of years ago, and asked about the car. The staffer he was
dealing with swore that it had been scrapped years earlier, and it wasn't until
my acquaintance pointed at the car and showed him that it was still on the
property that he maintained otherwise.

As for its not being
used, there are a number of reasons, not the least of which is the friction
bearing 41-E trucks underneath the car.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

[mile179kingston-FFYn/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Scheduled departure time Mtl 0800. Game time Rogers Centre 1600.

I imagine the train will be rushing. No passing sidings. I think it would be an interesting project to tackle. I would definitely try a run and shoot, not wanting to fumble this one. Thanks, Ken for getting us the first down on this special.


Eric Gagnon
Kingston, Ontario
Just blogged My Railfan Five Challenge at:
http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.ca http://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.ca

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Mon plaisir Eric. Unfortunately there was no information on intermediate running times.


Hope you noted the amendment to the observation car. Which makes more sense.


Preoccupied that morning I hope the weather pans out for you ! Enjoy.


K. Wadden Pointe Claire Qc

[mile179kingston-FFYn/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Jeez, Ken. Thanks for the revision, but I just took extra of my heart medication after reading Pavilion was going to be on the tail end, instead of sitting forlornly in the weeds of the TMC. C'est dommage. I will try to lie still and let the meds work their way out of my system now that it's just boring ol' Glenfraser (insert smiley face symbol here).

I imagine that train will be rockin!


Eric

[xcnken-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Didn't mean to be the harbinger of such ill informed consist info Eric, Derek and Tim.


Right from the beginning it somehow sounded too good to be true.


Yeah that car would have been really something to see alright. A Budd original with lots of history behind it.


K. Wadden Pointe Claire qc

[torbeaches-/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Thanks for the update, Ken, and to you, Eric, for planning to go out and take some shots. It will be an interesting train to observe nonetheless.

God bless Montreal Alouette fans - they have a long tradition of riding the rails to games against the Argonauts and TiCats. Now that the eastern CFL teams have come alive mid-season, this game is likely to be a good one too.



Derek Thompson
Toronto, Ontario

[tim_hayman-FFYn/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

That was my thought too Ken...much too good to be true, especially since I happen to be in the right place at the right time!

Ah well, an extra with Glenfraser is still pretty neat, so I'll be making my way out to look for it anyway. Only rumours of a possible Pavillion can actually make such a train seem kind of disappointing :-P


Tim
Halifax, NS

['I.W.P.' iftntnfs-XzQKRVe1yT0V+D8aMU/[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

These annual football specials are always rockin".



I was at Dorval one morning when a football special from Hamilton came
through. Or should I say streaked through. Doing 80MPH, quite the sight to
see.



Ian

Dorval,QC



_____

From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: October 16, 2014 18:56
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: Via ' Alouette' Extra Saturday October 18 2014





Jeez, Ken. Thanks for the revision, but I just took extra of my heart
medication after reading Pavilion was going to be on the tail end, instead
of sitting forlornly in the weeds of the TMC. C'est dommage. I will try to
lie still and let the meds work their way out of my system now that it's
just boring ol' Glenfraser (insert smiley face symbol here).



I imagine that train will be rockin!



Eric










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