Metrolinx buys Oshawa, Brampton, Georgetown stations

[Tom Box [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Here are news reports that say Metrolinx, GO Transit's parent, is
buying the stations in Oshawa, Brampton and Georgetown.

<http://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/68219>
<http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/4636801-metrolinx-acquires-cn-station-in-brampton/>

Both stories say that it's Canadian National that's selling the
stations. I thought that VIA had acquired most of CN's passenger
stations, and I would have expected that these three would have
been among them. I could be mistaken about VIA ownership, or
these three could be exceptions to a general rule, or the news
stories could be wrong.

The Oshawa station was built by CN in 1968, and later extensively
remodelled by VIA. In recent years, Oshawa has become VIA's main
stop for the eastern Toronto suburbs, as Guildwood has been
downgraded. Fewer VIA trains stop in Guildwood than in the past,
while almost all trains stop in Oshawa. VIA recently built a
new island platform and footbridge in Oshawa.

As of a few years ago, GO was proposing to move its trains to the
Canadian Pacific Belleville Sub through Oshawa, and leave the
existing station completely. So I'm a little surprised that
Metrolinx is buying this station. I don't know what the purchase
of the station means for the plans for a move to the CP line.
The extension of train service to Bowmanville was also linked to
the move to CP.

Brampton and Georgetown are both former Grand Trunk stations,
and both are designated under the federal Heritage Railway
Stations Protection Act:
<http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/clmhc-hsmbc/pat-her/gar-sta/on.aspx>.

VIA replaced its Brampton station agent with an automated kiosk
last year. As far as I know, there's never been VIA staff at the
Georgetown station; it has just served as a waiting room for VIA
passengers. GO has ticket sellers at both Brampton and Georgetown
during morning rush hours only. VIA service on this route was cut
back in 2012, and GO service is supposed to increase once the
construction on the Weston Sub is completed next year, so the
Metrolinx purchase of these two stations makes sense.

Tom Box
tbox at ncf dot ca
Port Hope, ON, Canada


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[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

It's especially interesting about the purchase of Oshawa station given that it just had the major expansion work completed within the last few years, with the new island platform and overpass—all of which is for VIA use only as the GO trains have their own separate platforms at Oshawa.

I am curious what Metrolinx has bought in Oshawa, and whether it only includes the 1968 station building footprint, but not the new addition.


Regardless of whether these three stations were owned by CN or VIA, with their transfer to ownership by a provincial agency, Brampton and Georgetown stations are no longer protected by the federal Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act. They now fall under the protection of the Ontario Heritage Act. Part III.1 (yes, mixed Roman and Arabic numerals) of the OHA addresses protection of provincially-owned heritage properties. That they have extensive heritage documentation due to their previous federal designation is helpful in managing change to these stations.


Regards,
Andrew

['Don Thomas' [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

It is possible that the transaction covers some land or platforms rather than the buildings themselves. Press releases are not drafted for the benefit of, nor even with the benefit of input from, people who would appreciate the difference.



The Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act covers only station buildings, not their lands. Ownership of a designated station may be transferred freely between two federally-regulated railways. Transfer of ownership to any other company or person may only occur under the authority of an Order in Council authorizing the transfer, upon which their designation and protection under the HRSPA ceases. CN or VIA may not sell to Metrolinx without the Order in Council. There has been no indication that Orders in Council have been issued for these stations, and if not, then they cannot be sold. So we are left with three possibilities: first, that Orders in Council have been issued for both stations (the end of a very lengthy process); second, that an agreement of sale has been made which will be effective upon issuance of Orders in Council (the beginning of the lengthy process); or third, that the sale involves land, platforms or other assets at the stations but not the heritage buildings themselves.



It should be noted that the Ontario Heritage Act does not apply automatically to a federal heritage railway station upon transfer from federal status. It must be designated by a municipality or by the provincial Minister. This can be done after the sale or transfer, or it can be done prospectively to have immediate effect when the transfer occurs. Further the designation may be made entirely on the initiative of the municipality or minister, or the federal Order in Council itself may be conditional on the minister or municipality designating the station provincially, or agreeing to do so. This conditional approval may include incorporating the station’s Heritage Character Statement as part of the provincial designation, or other more specific conditions placed by the federal authorities (Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada or the heritage staff of Parks Canada).



Don Thomas



From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: July-19-14 8:35 AM
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: Metrolinx buys Oshawa, Brampton, Georgetown stations





It's especially interesting about the purchase of Oshawa station given that it just had the major expansion work completed within the last few years, with the new island platform and overpass—all of which is for VIA use only as the GO trains have their own separate platforms at Oshawa.



I am curious what Metrolinx has bought in Oshawa, and whether it only includes the 1968 station building footprint, but not the new addition.



Regardless of whether these three stations were owned by CN or VIA, with their transfer to ownership by a provincial agency, Brampton and Georgetown stations are no longer protected by the federal Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act. They now fall under the protection of the Ontario Heritage Act. Part III.1 (yes, mixed Roman and Arabic numerals) of the OHA addresses protection of provincially-owned heritage properties. That they have extensive heritage documentation due to their previous federal designation is helpful in managing change to these stations.



Regards,

Andrew

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

There are many nuances to this sort of thing, as you say Don.

Protection under the Ontario Heritage Act does not automatically apply to a federally-designated heritage railway station upon its transfer out of federal jurisdiction. However, any real property (land and any buildings or structures on the land) owned by Government of Ontario ministries or prescribed public bodies (of which Metrolinx is one) falls under the jurisdiction of Part III.1, sections 25.2 and 25.3 of the Ontario Heritage Act. This property cannot be designated either by a municipality or by the minister, but is instead covered by standards and guidelines for provincial heritage properties.


If Metrolinx has acquired the lands on which the Brampton and Georgetown stations sit, it does not actually matter whether they own the buildings, though I expect that will be made more clear in due course. If Metrolinx owns the land, it will be required to do an identification and evaluation process on the properties for their heritage value and attributes, and if there is a positive evaluation, will be required to prepare a strategic conservation plan to guide their conservation, maintenance, use and disposal.


The President of GO Transit, which is now an operating division of Metrolinx, is quoted in the article concerning the sale of these stations. He says "“we’re excited about these purchases because improving GO stations is an important part of The Big Move, Metrolinx’s regional transportation plan to create more modern and customer-friendly facilities.”


Metrolinx bought these stations and it bought them with the intent of making improvements to them. This is a good thing. As a prescribed body under the Ontario Heritage Act, Metrolinx will be required to consider the heritage value of the stations when it makes any improvements. This is also a good thing. As for the question of the appropriate Order in Council, as I say, I expect that will become clear in due course.


Regards,
Andrew


---In Canadian-Passenger-***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

It is possible that the transaction covers some land or platforms rather than the buildings themselves. Press releases are not drafted for the benefit of, nor even with the benefit of input from, people who would appreciate the difference.

The Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act covers only station buildings, not their lands. Ownership of a designated station may be transferred freely between two federally-regulated railways. Transfer of ownership to any other company or person may only occur under the authority of an Order in Council authorizing the transfer, upon which their designation and protection under the HRSPA ceases. CN or VIA may not sell to Metrolinx without the Order in Council. There has been no indication that Orders in Council have been issued for these stations, and if not, then they cannot be sold. So we are left with three possibilities: first, that Orders in Council have been issued for both stations (the end of a very lengthy process); second, that an agreement of sale has been made which will be effective upon issuance of Orders in Council (the beginning of the lengthy process); or third, that the sale involves land, platforms or other assets at the stations but not the heritage buildings themselves.

It should be noted that the Ontario Heritage Act does not apply automatically to a federal heritage railway station upon transfer from federal status. It must be designated by a municipality or by the provincial Minister. This can be done after the sale or transfer, or it can be done prospectively to have immediate effect when the transfer occurs. Further the designation may be made entirely on the initiative of the municipality or minister, or the federal Order in Council itself may be conditional on the minister or municipality designating the station provincially, or agreeing to do so. This conditional approval may include incorporating the station’s Heritage Character Statement as part of the provincial designation, or other more specific conditions placed by the federal authorities (Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada or the heritage staff of Parks Canada).

Don Thomas

From: Canadian-Passenger-***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: July-19-14 8:35 AM
To: Canadian-Passenger-***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: Metrolinx buys Oshawa, Brampton, Georgetown stations




It's especially interesting about the purchase of Oshawa station given that it just had the major expansion work completed within the last few years, with the new island platform and overpass—all of which is for VIA use only as the GO trains have their own separate platforms at Oshawa.


I am curious what Metrolinx has bought in Oshawa, and whether it only includes the 1968 station building footprint, but not the new addition.



Regardless of whether these three stations were owned by CN or VIA, with their transfer to ownership by a provincial agency, Brampton and Georgetown stations are no longer protected by the federal Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act. They now fall under the protection of the Ontario Heritage Act. Part III.1 (yes, mixed Roman and Arabic numerals) of the OHA addresses protection of provincially-owned heritage properties. That they have extensive heritage documentation due to their previous federal designation is helpful in managing change to these stations.



Regards,

Andrew

['Don Thomas' [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

There must be public notices published in a newspaper, posted at the stations, and sent to the municipalities, the provincial heritage ministry, Heritage Canada, and the National Historic Sites Directorate of Parks Canada. If this hasn’t been done, it will have to be when an application is filed.



It will be interesting to see what changes they plan for the stations.



Don



From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: July-19-14 9:07 PM
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: RE: [CanPassRail] Re: Metrolinx buys Oshawa, Brampton, Georgetown stations





There are many nuances to this sort of thing, as you say Don.



Protection under the Ontario Heritage Act does not automatically apply to a federally-designated heritage railway station upon its transfer out of federal jurisdiction. However, any real property (land and any buildings or structures on the land) owned by Government of Ontario ministries or prescribed public bodies (of which Metrolinx is one) falls under the jurisdiction of Part III.1, sections 25.2 and 25.3 of the Ontario Heritage Act. This property cannot be designated either by a municipality or by the minister, but is instead covered by standards and guidelines for provincial heritage properties.



If Metrolinx has acquired the lands on which the Brampton and Georgetown stations sit, it does not actually matter whether they own the buildings, though I expect that will be made more clear in due course. If Metrolinx owns the land, it will be required to do an identification and evaluation process on the properties for their heritage value and attributes, and if there is a positive evaluation, will be required to prepare a strategic conservation plan to guide their conservation, maintenance, use and disposal.



The President of GO Transit, which is now an operating division of Metrolinx, is quoted in the article concerning the sale of these stations. He says "“we’re excited about these purchases because improving GO stations is an important part of The Big Move, Metrolinx’s regional transportation plan to create more modern and customer-friendly facilities.”





Metrolinx bought these stations and it bought them with the intent of making improvements to them. This is a good thing. As a prescribed body under the Ontario Heritage Act, Metrolinx will be required to consider the heritage value of the stations when it makes any improvements. This is also a good thing. As for the question of the appropriate Order in Council, as I say, I expect that will become clear in due course.



Regards,

Andrew


---In Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org, <***@...> wrote :

It is possible that the transaction covers some land or platforms rather than the buildings themselves. Press releases are not drafted for the benefit of, nor even with the benefit of input from, people who would appreciate the difference.



The Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act covers only station buildings, not their lands. Ownership of a designated station may be transferred freely between two federally-regulated railways. Transfer of ownership to any other company or person may only occur under the authority of an Order in Council authorizing the transfer, upon which their designation and protection under the HRSPA ceases. CN or VIA may not sell to Metrolinx without the Order in Council. There has been no indication that Orders in Council have been issued for these stations, and if not, then they cannot be sold. So we are left with three possibilities: first, that Orders in Council have been issued for both stations (the end of a very lengthy process); second, that an agreement of sale has been made which will be effective upon issuance of Orders in Council (the beginning of the lengthy process); or third, that the sale involves land, platforms or other assets at the stations but not the heritage buildings themselves.



It should be noted that the Ontario Heritage Act does not apply automatically to a federal heritage railway station upon transfer from federal status. It must be designated by a municipality or by the provincial Minister. This can be done after the sale or transfer, or it can be done prospectively to have immediate effect when the transfer occurs. Further the designation may be made entirely on the initiative of the municipality or minister, or the federal Order in Council itself may be conditional on the minister or municipality designating the station provincially, or agreeing to do so. This conditional approval may include incorporating the station’s Heritage Character Statement as part of the provincial designation, or other more specific conditions placed by the federal authorities (Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada or the heritage staff of Parks Canada).



Don Thomas



From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: July-19-14 8:35 AM
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: Metrolinx buys Oshawa, Brampton, Georgetown stations





It's especially interesting about the purchase of Oshawa station given that it just had the major expansion work completed within the last few years, with the new island platform and overpass—all of which is for VIA use only as the GO trains have their own separate platforms at Oshawa.



I am curious what Metrolinx has bought in Oshawa, and whether it only includes the 1968 station building footprint, but not the new addition.



Regardless of whether these three stations were owned by CN or VIA, with their transfer to ownership by a provincial agency, Brampton and Georgetown stations are no longer protected by the federal Heritage Railway Stations Protection Act. They now fall under the protection of the Ontario Heritage Act. Part III.1 (yes, mixed Roman and Arabic numerals) of the OHA addresses protection of provincially-owned heritage properties. That they have extensive heritage documentation due to their previous federal designation is helpful in managing change to these stations.



Regards,

Andrew

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

In once sense, we are going through some of the same steps with the Searchmont Station. We have to submit a package to CN, then we go through the transfer process. I have been told it can take 6 to 10 months sometimes if not longer. We have to get the federal side to transition and get the Ontario heritage trust to take over. But we still have to conform to the same rulex. Any modification out side of the historic key areas, has to be approved. So it can be time consuming, and yes notices have to be given and will be posted in local papers and on the station, and have to be visable. If you are interested in following our process and restoration, check out www.searchmontstation.com and sign up for our newsletter. First one is out next week Nathan Sault ste. Marie CEO/Director Searchmont Station Preservation & Historical Society

[[e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Although, as Don notes, an Order-in-Council is normally a long process, in certain situations the process can be massively expedited, especially if the situation is either urgent (politically or otherwise) or administratively routine or desireable. From personal experience when I worked for the Feds, I have seen urgent O-i-Cs done in a matter of days, and an 'administrative' one done in a week.

James
Ottawa, ON

['Mike J.' [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

I was also wondering about how this plays into the proposed move to the CP Bellevile sub to the three new Oshawa stations and points east. Possibly Metrolinx took a lot of flack for proposing to move out of the station they currently share with VIA? A station moved north would make commutes longer for those riders needing to transfer to a VIA train from GO for points east of Oshawa. This purchase basically makes the proposed Thornton Road station unnecessary and would likely expedite the construction of the proposed Bloor Street E station near Grandview that was planned for a later date opening.

It then brings up another issue. If they're no longer going to cross the highway using a ramp through the parking lot of the existing station at Thornton, where will they go to meet the CP line? Metrolinx is currently working on expropriating the former Knob Hill Farms site as they couldn't reach a fair purchase price with the owner. That means they have to get on the Belleville sub before that point to be able to use the former CP yard there for two platforms and parking (this was shown on the expansion route documents). Wonder if they'll end up putting in a bridge back in where the old CN bridge was but on a slight angle to allow faster speeds on curves?

I'm sure there's going to be more announcements and land acquisitions for Oshawa as this expansion goes through its process.

Mike
Oshawa, ON

-----Original Message-----
From: Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Canadian-Passenger-Rail-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: July 18, 2014 10:32 AM
To: Canadian Passenger Rail
Subject: [CanPassRail] Metrolinx buys Oshawa, Brampton, Georgetown stations

The Oshawa station was built by CN in 1968, and later extensively remodelled by VIA. In recent years, Oshawa has become VIA's main stop for the eastern Toronto suburbs, as Guildwood has been downgraded. Fewer VIA trains stop in Guildwood than in the past, while almost all trains stop in Oshawa. VIA recently built a new island platform and footbridge in Oshawa.

As of a few years ago, GO was proposing to move its trains to the Canadian Pacific Belleville Sub through Oshawa, and leave the existing station completely. So I'm a little surprised that Metrolinx is buying this station. I don't know what the purchase of the station means for the plans for a move to the CP line.
The extension of train service to Bowmanville was also linked to the move to CP.

Tom Box
tbox at ncf dot ca
Port Hope, ON, Canada





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[Tom Box [e-mail] [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]]

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
I was also wondering about how this plays into the proposed
move to the CP Bellevile sub to the three new Oshawa stations
and points east. Possibly Metrolinx took a lot of flack for
proposing to move out of the station they currently share with
VIA?

Seems unlikely to me. I doubt that many people care.

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
A station moved north would make commutes longer for those
riders needing to transfer to a VIA train from GO for points
east of Oshawa.

True, but how many people now do that? VIA-GO transfers in
Oshawa are an idea that sounds good in principle, but I suspect
they happen very rarely in practice. I'm sure they're only a
tiny fraction of GO's total ridership from Oshawa, so I doubt
they're a factor in Metrolinx's planning.

Reservia will sell you VIA and GO tickets including a transfer
at Oshawa, but the half-baked implementation of this option
suggests that VIA isn't very serious about that transfer,
either. For example, it will sell you a ticket from Port
Hope to Pickering on VIA #651 and GO #909, but it won't sell
you a ticket for the return trip There certainly are GO trains
that would let you connect to VIA #650 or #48 in Oshawa, but
Reservia doesn't know about them.

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
This purchase basically makes the proposed Thornton Road
station unnecessary

You seem to be assuming that (1) the move of the GO trains
to the CP Belleville Sub through Oshawa is going ahead, and
(2) there will be a new connecting track from the GO Sub to
the Belleville Sub east of the current Oshawa station, so GO
can continue using that station. Both assumptions seem
questionable to me.

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
and would likely expedite the construction of the proposed
Bloor Street E station near Grandview that was planned for
a later date opening.

Why do you say that?

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
It then brings up another issue. If they're no longer going
to cross the highway using a ramp through the parking lot
of the existing station at Thornton,

That wasn't the plan. The connection from the GO Sub to the
Belleville Sub was going to be farther west than the existing
Oshawa station. It was going to cross the 401 just east of
the truck inspection station on the eastbound lanes of the
highway, and west of the Valiant Mini-Storage business on
Victoria St. in Whitby, at the green arrow on this map:
<http://goo.gl/maps/NGYIW>. Notice how there are open fields
both north and south of the highway at that point.

See also p. 95 of the 2011 environmental assessment report at
<http://goo.gl/EZxpu8> or
<http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/ea/oshawabowmanville/MainEPR_GOTransitServiceExpansionOshawatoBowmanville-Feb2011.pdf>

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
where will they go to meet the CP line?
Metrolinx is currently working on expropriating the former
Knob Hill Farms site as they couldn't reach a fair purchase
price with the owner.

Here's a news report about that:
<http://www.oshawaexpress.ca/viewposting.php?view=6589>
The above page shows me today's date (yesterday it showed me
yesterday's date), but Google News says this report is from
June 25, 2014. The expropriation notice was served in
August 2013, as reported here <http://goo.gl/xazZQs> or
<http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/4045573-metrolinx-looking-to-expropriate-oshawa-knob-hill-farms-lands/>,
so the process is certainly dragging on. I wonder if the
purchase of the existing station means that Metrolinx is
giving up on the move, or at least making contingency plans
in case the planned move falls through.

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
That means they have to get on the Belleville sub before
that point to be able to use the former CP yard there for
two platforms and parking (this was shown on the expansion
route documents). Wonder if they'll end up putting in a
bridge back in where the old CN bridge was but on a slight
angle to allow faster speeds on curves?

Mike is talking about reviving the former Oshawa Railway.
First you would have to extend the GO Sub tracks parallel to
the Kingston Sub to a point east of Simcoe St. That would
require demolishing the existing Oshawa station, and also
the north side of the new VIA footbridge structure.
Presumably you'd have to expand the footbridge so VIA
passengers could get over the new GO tracks to the VIA
platform.

Then you'd have to lay new tracks in the former Oshawa
Railway right of way. Here's what that RoW now looks like,
looking south from Bloor St: <http://goo.gl/maps/crPk2>,
north from Bloor: <http://goo.gl/maps/oTzdj>, south from
First Ave: <http://goo.gl/maps/WbkQh>, and north from
First: <http://goo.gl/maps/Ls1eJ>. It's the laneway
between the businesses in the first two street views,
and the paved bike path next to the road in the last two.
What do you think the chances are of those spots hosting
10- or 12-car GO trains twice an hour in each direction?

Post by 'Mike J.' mjacula-***@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
I'm sure there's going to be more announcements and land
acquisitions for Oshawa as this expansion goes through its
process.

Mike, you're the most optimistic person I've ever encountered.
I'm far from sure the expansion is going to happen at all.

Tom Box
tbox at ncf dot ca
Port Hope, ON, Canada


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