moonliter55-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org [Canadian-Passenger-Rail]
2014-07-29 07:43:16 UTC
Don and Tom wrote:
Their last four years, it seems. Timetables indicate the combined
21-33 and 22-34 operation began in October 1961.
Sunday morning only, not on other days. Combined 22-34 ran on
the same schedule as weekday 34 from Toronto to Smiths Falls,
but that was not the case for 21-33. It had a different timetable
from weekday 33.
That was true for the Montreal - Toronto cars, but I overlooked
another important difference before and after the end of the pool.
The pool trains also carried Ottawa - Toronto cars, which ran on
CP between Ottawa and Brockville (the same as today's VIA route
between Smiths Falls and Brockville, but a now mostly-abandoned
route from Ottawa to Smiths Falls, through Hull, Ottawa West and
Carleton Place). They were added to/subtracted from the Montreal
train at Brockville. After the end of the pool, these trains no
longer had Ottawa cars, at least for the first few months.
There was something in this conversation that kept eating at me and that was Tom's statement that Ottawa-Toronto pool trains ran over "but a now mostly-abandoned from Ottawa to Smith Falls, through Hull, Ottawa West and Carleton Place" I checked my April 65 CN timetable and it looks like this is true. Pool Train 5 left Ottawa at 08:35 and arrived in Brockville via Carleton Place. This RDC or as CP called them, Dayliner met the LaSalle in Brockville. I imagine this would have been a cross-platform connection.
The next train that left Ottawa for Brockville was Pool Train 15, this train carried a Ottawa diner, parlor and coaches. My guess this train was combined with the Montreal section in Brockville as the timetable shows that these were Ottawa-Toronto cars.
Now for the last Ottawa-Toronto train of the day, Pool 33. The CN timetable shows times at Ottawa and Smith Falls but nothing at Carleton Place or Brockville. That is because this train ran to Bedell over the Prescott sub then west on the Winchester sub to Smith Falls. It was here that train 33 combined with train 21 from Montreal.
In the April 65 CP timetable trains 33-34 clearly show the route through Kemptville and Merrickville in Table 20.
To answer a later post from Tom Box Re: 33/34 consist, here is what I found. My source is from CPR's "Assignment of Space" circular dated April 25th, 1965.
Train 33: Car 3300 CP 5 DBR Lounge except Sat., Car 3301 CP "Manor" series 4 Roomettes-5 DBR-1 Compartment-4 Sections daily but does not operate between May 28th and Oct 2nd., Car 3302 CP "Grove" 10 Roomettes-5 DBR daily but does not operate between May 26th & Sept 26th., Car 3304 CN 17** Roomettes daily from May 26th to Sept 26th, Car 3305 12 Section- 1 Drawing Room daily except Sat. but does not run from May 29th to Sept 25th.
During the summer train 33 ran with a baggage car, coach, sleeper/lounge ex-Sat and 17**Roomettes. In the fall, spring and winter train 33 ran with a baggage, coach, sleeper/lounge and 3 sleepers.
CN17** Roomettes, the car has 18 roomettes but Room 9 was not to be sold thus leaving 17 in revenue service.
Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON
Their last four years, it seems. Timetables indicate the combined
21-33 and 22-34 operation began in October 1961.
21/22 were combined with Ottawa-Toronto pool trains 33/34 west
of Smiths Falls, with the Montreal cars running in 33/34 on the
inland Havelock/Peterborough line.
As Don clarified in a later posting, that was on Saturday night/of Smiths Falls, with the Montreal cars running in 33/34 on the
inland Havelock/Peterborough line.
Sunday morning only, not on other days. Combined 22-34 ran on
the same schedule as weekday 34 from Toronto to Smiths Falls,
but that was not the case for 21-33. It had a different timetable
from weekday 33.
That was true for the Montreal - Toronto cars, but I overlooked
another important difference before and after the end of the pool.
The pool trains also carried Ottawa - Toronto cars, which ran on
CP between Ottawa and Brockville (the same as today's VIA route
between Smiths Falls and Brockville, but a now mostly-abandoned
route from Ottawa to Smiths Falls, through Hull, Ottawa West and
Carleton Place). They were added to/subtracted from the Montreal
train at Brockville. After the end of the pool, these trains no
longer had Ottawa cars, at least for the first few months.
There was something in this conversation that kept eating at me and that was Tom's statement that Ottawa-Toronto pool trains ran over "but a now mostly-abandoned from Ottawa to Smith Falls, through Hull, Ottawa West and Carleton Place" I checked my April 65 CN timetable and it looks like this is true. Pool Train 5 left Ottawa at 08:35 and arrived in Brockville via Carleton Place. This RDC or as CP called them, Dayliner met the LaSalle in Brockville. I imagine this would have been a cross-platform connection.
The next train that left Ottawa for Brockville was Pool Train 15, this train carried a Ottawa diner, parlor and coaches. My guess this train was combined with the Montreal section in Brockville as the timetable shows that these were Ottawa-Toronto cars.
Now for the last Ottawa-Toronto train of the day, Pool 33. The CN timetable shows times at Ottawa and Smith Falls but nothing at Carleton Place or Brockville. That is because this train ran to Bedell over the Prescott sub then west on the Winchester sub to Smith Falls. It was here that train 33 combined with train 21 from Montreal.
In the April 65 CP timetable trains 33-34 clearly show the route through Kemptville and Merrickville in Table 20.
To answer a later post from Tom Box Re: 33/34 consist, here is what I found. My source is from CPR's "Assignment of Space" circular dated April 25th, 1965.
Train 33: Car 3300 CP 5 DBR Lounge except Sat., Car 3301 CP "Manor" series 4 Roomettes-5 DBR-1 Compartment-4 Sections daily but does not operate between May 28th and Oct 2nd., Car 3302 CP "Grove" 10 Roomettes-5 DBR daily but does not operate between May 26th & Sept 26th., Car 3304 CN 17** Roomettes daily from May 26th to Sept 26th, Car 3305 12 Section- 1 Drawing Room daily except Sat. but does not run from May 29th to Sept 25th.
During the summer train 33 ran with a baggage car, coach, sleeper/lounge ex-Sat and 17**Roomettes. In the fall, spring and winter train 33 ran with a baggage, coach, sleeper/lounge and 3 sleepers.
CN17** Roomettes, the car has 18 roomettes but Room 9 was not to be sold thus leaving 17 in revenue service.
Gerry Gaugl
Ottawa ON